These are unedited transcripts and may contain errors.

Closing plenary, 28th of September, 2012, at 11 a.m.:

BRIAN NISBET: Good morning and it's still morning. We are going to start, ladies and gentlemen, with the final session of RIPE 65, so if could you attack your seats. This is working, isn't it? Sander...

Right. So first up, we have the results of the NRO election so I will hand over to Nick.

NICK HYRKA: The winner of the ?? NC seat is Dimitry Cauchmanoch, he received 25 votes. Congratulations.

BRIAN NISBET: Congratulations. So, if you haven't already seen this URL, this is for the RIPE PC elections, you will another half an hour or so to vote, and we will be announcing the five winners at some point during this session when the results are in. Close at 11:30. So our first talk of this last session is from the ChokePoint project, from Ruben Bloemgarten on who watches the watchman.

RUBEN BLOEMGARTEN: Good morning, everyone. I heard from many people that everyone is fairly hung?over so that's good for me, I think.

So I am going to talk about the ChokePoint project which is an attempt to do near realtime monitoring visualisation of censorship and surveillance measurements. First to give you a small history:

The project started, as many projects in this field, after the Egyptian Internet shut down, awhich point a number of people got together and they realised we don't actually know on a day?to?day basis what is going on vis?a?vis connectivity, censorship, surveillance, around the network. So obviously, everyone here being at RIPE, it's very ?? you can very clearly see events in analysis of data.

I already mentioned this. So the idea is to have new realtime monitoring contextual, visualisation of surveillance measurements. The reason to do this is to have an early warning system, a public warning platform and a research tool.

It's trying to ?? I am kind of reading my slides here, I am not really happy with that. So we are trying to answer a number of questions so what is happening now, what has happened yesterday and what does that mean for me?

So, a big problem we have is that there is vast amounts of information out there, I know that many people in the past week spoke about the various RIPE probes and the various amounts of interfaces to the RIPE data, and statistically, there is nobody in the world that actually understands that information. Least of all politicians, journalists, lawyers, anyone involved with policy, anyone basically ?? basically anyone out there, so whenever any of us look at a large data set and then go, look at all these nice graphs and things, something bad is happening here, most people will just hear wah wah.

Conversely, though, this is the same for most developers and most technicians, whenever someone says look, this is happening or that's happening, a then politician also go yes but we need to spend three years discussing this and we have pre?existing legislation that makes things complicated or can you really prove that this is going on and what really kind of significance does that have for anyone out there? Why should we spend any effort on that?

So, the platform that we intend to build tries to clearly combine all these various data sets, they are all changing data sets, whether they are legal data sets or commercial data sets or technical data sets based on measurements and so forth, we are going to try and collect them all, add two elements, geography and time, and create both a realtime aspect to it and maintain a history through time.

So the realtime part is going to be very relevant for activists and organisations. They currently have a big problem just like anyone doesn't know really what is going on for them, there are lives at stake. These are people that might be involved in some up rising or something like that, it might be more innocuous, it might be ?? anyway...

So for them to know very quickly what type of surveillance exists in their country, to know very quickly what their legal status is when they use circumvention tools, to know whether or not there is a disconnection event on their network, is quite important.

Then second, the five estates, we all know three estates with addition of the fourth, so the judicial reporting and everybody else. Everybody, the importance of the network has entered into everybody's life and it influences our civil rights, our human rights, it influences how we interact with each other, with government and so forth and so on.

And lastly, of course, researchers, who are just always interested in anything.

So, why these particular target groups? As I stated, human and civil rights activists need to know where to act, and after they have acted did actually match and have a result because that's also very important. Currently, there are a lot of ad hoc activities, especially in this field, where someone has heard that in Libya, there is a group of people who need help, so then a number of NGOs, they get together and go we need to go to Libya and send very big modem in a suitcase over there and have them be able to chat with one another or what not.

So first of all, we don't actually know that was the place where the action was most relevant; and second, we don't know if the action had any results.

As to the five estates, we need to improve public discussion. Currently, there is a lot of mention of digital rights, there is a lot of digital cyber war and all kinds of ?? all these digital prefixes where, in fact, there is no fundamental difference between digital analogue in this case especially not if it concerns our civil rights and our human rights.

What are analog rights? And of course, for researches, lots of data is interesting and criticism is fun. This is quite important, if we collect all of this information and we start analysing it and creating visualisations based on all this information, then we need to have every part that have system available and we need to have researchers there that look at it and point out when it's glaringly wrong or even when slightly wrong.

So, this leads me to the fundamental aspect of a project like that that's different from any other technical development project. We need some public ethics that are commonplace in other fields, such as medicine, the whole aspect of do no harm. We need to assure that even if we attack one source, that we only use it as a proof of concept, that we realise that when we put forward the information, that, in fact, that one source is no source, as is common amongst journalism, or should be common amongst journalism.

So, then, data that is supplied to a system like this, that can then not be published so only results being published or methods that are being used to perform analyses that cannot be published, for whatever reason, are inherently invalid, even if the conclusion is correct, even if there is a secret group of good people that are aware that know that the data is real, that know that the method is good, with this particular type of information, if the data and the methods are not published or publishable, they are invalid.

Also, again, very sensitive information, we are going to make massive assumptions, just because of the nature of the various data sets, which means that we need a lot of people and a lot of money to do this process, so all funding must be public because the people that read the results need to know who has paid for these results. And again, seriously, do no harm.

So this is just ?? apparently ?? nobody is sleeping.

So very quickly, it's a very ambitious project and to make it manageable we have subdivided it into a number of applications, so the first one is the simplest, it's the one that we are quite close to having a beta of, which is based on the beta is based on only M?Lab which breaks the promise of the previous slide which is the one source is no source. We need to have more stuff there, so the idea there is to very simply count connections outgoing connections from a geography to another geography, and to then measure deviations in that connectivity to figure out whether or not an area is connected or not connected. So basically, a status button for the world.

OONI?Map, probe is a an effort that will do more specific analyses only network layer and generate reports based on that, and OONI?Map is specifically take those reports and visualise them.

Context feed is where we work together with journalististic organisations and have them tag incidents and feed that into our system so we can have measurements and journalistic events show up simultaneously in the system.

Then there is some derivative projects that can be done here, something like JuriTrace where we can do traceroutes according to jurisdiction, only traceroutes according to network ownership or device ownership. Then there is source grapher which should allow researchers direct access and create views of all these various data sources, how ?? anyway...

Yes. So, like I mentioned, there is a number of open and available data sources one is M?Lab that we are already processing, there is some information from RIPE that we are using, a lot of this we still need to process, there is the a lot of information out ?? already out there that we are trying to ago grate.

There is a lot of information out there that's either not available yet or is being made available. So, one probe is something that's being developed right now and there is some ?? some small data sets that we are looking into to figure out what the structure of that is and there is other partnership with free press international that will allow us to model these other data sets, we are looking into modelling their collection of legal information from across the globe.

So this is a nice picture. This is ?? it's a mock?up of what front page would look like, very simply a dynamic status map. This is what a country page would look like, so each of these applications that I mentioned would represent one of these fields.

This is the same, it's a variation with different types of events viewable.

So, the entire environment would eventually be accessible through five layers of access, the world page as you saw, then there is the country page which shows an aggregation of all current events, just the most recent ones, then the source grapher which allows to do source selections and API for people who want to access the intermediate data or analytical data and access to the code of raw data and intermediate data as dumps or however anyone sees fit.

So that's it.


CHAIR: We have time for questions. OK. None. If there are no questions, thank you very much.

ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: We have a couple of lightning talks and I'd like to invite Iljitsch van Beijnum first.

ILJITSCH VAN BEIJNUM: Hi. I thought we need to talk a bit more about BGP, the last day of the RIPE meeting, let me warn you the last time I gave this talk it was for a bunch of professors, it took me 45 minutes but you guys are much smarter so I don't think I need the full ten minutes.

So what is the problem that we tried to, me and my co?author tried to address here? That's with BGP, traffic engineering. So, with BGP ?? you run BGP, if you are connected to multiple other networks, for instance if you are small ISP, you buy transit from two bigger ISPs and then you want to balance the traffic load on those two links, so you don't use ?? you don't send everything and receive everything over one link from ISP, nothing over the other. So how do you do that?

The manipulates the AS path link in BGP but the problem is that it works way too well. But let me show you how it's done, how that works: Suppose we are here, we are autonomous system number one, and we buy transit from ten and twenty and there is four others that want to send traffic to us so you see each of these four can choose between sending traffic over ten or over twenty, so just randomly, three of them send their traffic over ten, so these are the black lines and they use the yellow lines as backup and only one of them sends its traffic over twenty. So we get three?quarters over traffic over ten and one quarter over twenty. That's not what we want in this example, what are we going to do? We are going to do an AS prepends, standard BGP operation and make a fake AS hop here and, so all of them choose the shorter path over AS 20 and now I get 100% of my traffic over the other AS so instead of 75/25 it's now 100/0. That's not what I want. Of course, there is other ways to do this, there is also prefix deaggregation but for reasons of I am not going to explain to you why exactly this is so bad except to show you that it involves this graph, BGP prefixes are growing way too fast and this makes it worse and it doesn't even do the traffic engineering all that well.

So, what if we add a new feature to BGP that inter AS matrix, OPA in BGP talk, it's also grant father in Dutch and German. So, it's an optional transitive attribute to BGP which means all implementations, even if they don't know what it is they should propagate it to the next, it's set by originator of a prefix, it's not changed in the middle so it's nice and easy and of course the idea is that routers, they base their decision?making on this attribute in part.

So, this is what happens: No OPA, well actually, the OPA is working but we don't set any values here and you see we have this trick with the randomisation which I am also not going to explain that's already tries to randomise the traffic, you see we now get 75% over 20, 25% over 10, so what are we going to do? We are going to say, OK, we increase the OPA by two here, and what happens is that this is randomisation function, what happens is then that, here, we make this one switch. Number 100. Now also sends it's traffic over 10, so now we are at 50/50. Now, we can slowly increase this number if we want to go further than this so it's very gradual thing, and one by one all these other ASes are going to flip so not all of them at the same time, that's the whole idea.

My co?author for the paper we published, he did a whole bunch of simulations and these are a bit hard to explain so I am not even going to try, maybe a little. Here, you see OPA is 0, everything is certain. Distribution of traffic, you see if you start pushing the OPA in the negative, a lot of ASes change their routing behaviour or you push in the positive it goes the other way. You see there is still a lot, it doesn't change but there is enough that changes, that we think this is worthwhile.

So, hopefully we can interest some router vendors in implementing this, and make the BGP slightly less prone to deaggregation and unwanted limitations and traffic engineering. Questions? No questions.

ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: No questions? There is a question.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: It's not actually a question. Nothing can be improved better than BGP, it just needs one more attribute, it's going to be great. It's a joke. I want to remind everyone you have seven minutes left to vote for Programme Committee candidates so you should please do that right now. Thank you.

ILJITSCH VAN BEIJNUM: Let me give a non?answer to the non?question, that's of source if it's the right attribute, then you can solve the problem. Adding the wrong one doesn't help.


ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: Thank you very much. Next lightning talk, Anto Veldre.

ANTO VELDRE: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. Anto Veldre is my name, I am from Estonia. I am here to absorb at least a part of this huge knowledge which is represented here. And as almost all of you, I am wired approximately 20 years, from now so I am constantly following the news.

And what I saw this morning, this Monday, what I saw this Monday, was the news about the freedom house has awarded Estonia the first place in the world as most, as the top country with Internet freedoms, but what was the news second to that? It was that EU proposed some plan, of course I have heard about this clean IT before but it was something very distant for me. But then the plot thickened a little bit and I saw already a famous techno writer asking our president that what do you think about this plan. So this is our president, in case you haven't met him before.

And what he said at freedom house: He said "far too many countries are speaking about Internet freedom as a threat to security. Cyber security is necessary to restrict criminal activities, but not the exchange of ideas and information among people or to limit virtual gatherings." And this, despite the great 2007 leaders we had.

So, who am I? More than half of my life I have lived in Soviet Union. I know precisely what is the censorship, I have some very fine feeling to distinguish between a lie and the truth because I have seen it so many times, and I have seen how lies or semi?lies have been maintained during the history, be that the murders in Poland, all be that the Estonian War of Independence, was it at all or not? So it's claimed that it wasn't. My grandma told that it was, my grandfather was participating at this war when he was 19, so who I believe?

Well, there are many, many lies and one famous author, George Orwell, has described a society which is based on lies. You cannot distinguish which is a lie, which is a truth, and they are very specific words to carry out this manipulation, and/or we will said "the further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it."

So, the lies are different. Now, it will be a talking slide. It's in Poland. These are Germans. This is a Russian general. What are these guys doing together in Poland? According to history which was taught to us in Soviet Union, 50 years it was prohibited even to speak about this because it wasn't. In Soviet Union there were things like GlavLit which was many censorship office. Then as counter balance there was some self publishing, it was people like Alexander Solzhenitsyn which won the Nobel Prize, he was typing his famous book somewhere in Estonia in a small village, so it was called 'Samlzdat' and various labels were used, for example, a first, it was the notation for anybody, any other cultural user using external manpower because such people should be sent to Siberia as soon as possible. There was enemy of the nation. It was used until Stalin died.

One more euphamism is terrorism. What it is. This is the statistics here by Europol IC, this is 2006/7, 2011 ?? no, 2010, 2011, so 2006, we see France, a big number, Spain a big number, here we see France big number, Spain big number, what we see here? A number more or less ?? lesser and here quite a less number. So, things are on improvement, police is working and everything is starting to be OK soon, so why we need some clean IT?

At least on my Twitter, I had this news as top two EU Working Group and so on and so on, and I have seen this was a big scandal because honourable representor from yesterday was saying something other people were saying something so it was relatively popular.

What actually saying, this clean IT leaked papers. Knowingly providing hyper links which are illegal by law, governments must disseminate lists of illegal terrorist websites. What I will do is put it to the bibliotech or gather or collect, they will use them.

Social media companies must allow only real pictures of users. And much more governments to have a very special browser. So, when we see these documents, we see that there are two versions, I don't know which is true, which is lie, but we see two of them. And here are the clarifications of the difference.

What do you think what it is? If you think it's a Nokia souvenir, you will be mistaken. When Americans were at specific war during the Second World War, then they were like ?? when Americans needed food they took the walkie?talkie and said whatever, after 30 minutes the food came and that was the start for a new religion called cargo cult. So people were building planes and radio stations and some others in hope that it will help, I really don't know will it or not.

In 1955, there was a famous Russell Einstein manifesto and scientists warned we have some technology available which could be dangerous to humanity and they warned the governments and they asked for very ethical considerations, so it be that, today, we are in a state where Internet is such kind of technology?

So the summary:

Internet is the best I think that humanity has, please don't play with this. Please convince your governments, make only good with this. I personally do not want sensors back, I don't know what about you. If somebody thinks this isn't possible to handle difficult technology?related questions in a very precise fashion, then look for ten years ago, seek for it at Google, it is possible. Thank you.


ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: OK. Are there any questions?

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Thank you, statistics about terrorist, please, could you maybe later provide information about how many of such terrorist I can acts was planned or was prevented using Internet network, how or what is the relationship between this numbers and Internet? I believe there is no relations at all, all these terrorist attacks make ?? I repeat yesterday: Please keep your counter terrorists out of Internet or you wake out and go out in one moment.

ANTO VELDRE: When I meet through this Europe reports for several years I have not seen such kind of statistics. There were, yes, most of them mentions that the Internet is available and the same thing that Mr. Classen told here, but I haven't seen such kind of statistics. Thank you.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Hi, I am Meredith with NLab and Google, I want to make a comment, I think Ruben's presentation on what we just heard here implicitly make the link between political and technical and there may be people thinking I just manage networks, I don't want to get involved in the political but when you think about something like the Internet that's inherently decentralised and democratic it is already a political technology and when you see efforts to sensor, to surveil, to control that, those have direct implications on the future of the Internet so I think it's really important that the technical community kind of build the muscle to connect the two and to understand one in the context of the other and vice versa. Thanks.


ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: OK. If there are other questions, thank you. I'd like to invite then Axel Pawlik and Randy Bush.

AXEL PAWLIK: It will be short. Don't be afraid. Good morning. Since Wednesday, it has become blatantly obvious to me that my presentation was not as well received and as clear on some points as it should have been, perfect stat. I work with the community, and this is basically about PI and certification and those things. Sorry about that it, could have been ?? I could have been much clearer; I wasn't, I fix that had over the next couple of weeks. Certainly before the next meeting.

That's my part.

RANDY BUSH: I am old enough to use this, I was wrong, we were wrong we have taken this IP space and made a mess, we have made two many classes of users. PI is a serious problem, it's a problem to me because I want Axel to feel comfortable with his relationship to the PI holder that he will issue a certificate. As, you know, I care about the RPKI routing certificates, etc. So, you know, right now, it's an indirect relationship because it goes financially through the LIR and it's a direct relationship because the PI holder can manipulate their Whois, they do have a maintainer object, etc.. we have made a mess. How do we get out of it? I don't know. I am also old enough to say that.

AXEL PAWLIK: I think they tell us.

RANDY BUSH: What an idea.


RANDY BUSH: So, but I have suggested ?? what I have suggested is, would you please solve this problem. This is supposed to be a bottom up process. Well, you are sitting on your bottoms, work it up.


So, in the address policy Working Group and in the Services Working Group, would you figure this out, please. Come up with some serious proposals on how to move forward on this and how to deconfuse this mess. We made it, let's unmake it.



ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: Thank you. Well, off question?

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Just a comment. On behalf of the address policy Working Group, thank you and please get involved, we are really trying to figure out this mess so, thank you for the extra advertising.

ANDREI ROBACHEVSKY: Thank you. We almost are at the end of our meeting, plenary meeting agenda. Just a couple of announcements. I'd like to announce that we have Amazon voucher and you know the computer randomly selects RIPE access account ?? that's the winner of the Amazon voucher.

BRIAN NISBET: Yes, so ?? well done, and ??


This is proof that rating the talks, you know, is a good and beneficial thing, enlightens self interest and we saw a large bump on this year on people rating talks so we are hoping that will continue on into the years. And we are obviously looking at continual improvements for that whole system.

So we also, because technology is great, have the results of the PC elections, and thank you all for voting; I have actually no idea what the total valid poles was, we won't worry about that, we have five winners so in alphabetical order, those winners, thank you for all for putting yourselves forward and hopefully people will continue to do so because slots will continually open up, so the five winners are Will Hargrave, Elisa, Shane Kerr, Benno Overeinder and Job Snijders.


The hard work starts here, you will receive your orders and location of the first secret mission in your inbox in the near future.

So, that's me and Andrei done, but to finish off the PC and plenary stuff, I will hand over to Todd.

TODD UNDERWOOD: Just, I want a quick comment on the process for this election. It did not live up to our standards and I want to personally apologise for that. There were three candidates who submitted their names, two of them after the deadline because they didn't understand the deadline because although we stated it multiple terms in person, I want to apologise to those candidates and one candidate who submitted his application on time for the deadline and was simply lost in our e?mail. And these are ?? so, yes, we are new at our jobs and clearly we are quite bad and I wanted to apologise to those canned candidates to you and for not making this election as well?run as it should be and it will be better run in the future so I am very sorry about that.

NIALL O'REILLY: A remark: This explains why Bert's candidacy was missed. I hope we won't have unintended consequences from the Secret Working Group.

TODD UNDERWOOD: I won't comment, I am not aware of any such Working Group. I want to make a mention that Sander ?? Sander is buggering ?? no, he is leaving the Programme Committee after dedicated service, getting it started, and his help has been most appreciated and I wanted to thank him, and I think he deserves a round of applause.


Thank you, Sander. And the last thing I want to say, this election represents significant increase in the size of the Programme Committee for RIPE and it represents the continuing reality that this Programme Committee is going to have ongoing existence, we are getting rid of these first few candidates that we seeded the Programme Committee with and replace them with community elected members and this is exactly as it should be and I hope that the Programme Committee endures for some time to come and continues to provide you all with excellent plenary content. I now turn it over to Rob.

ROB BLOKZIJL: I was going to say I think it's appropriate moment in time to thank the Programme Committee for an excellent job this week. We had a fantastic programme. Thank you very much.


As usual, at the very end of a RIPE meeting, there are a couple of things we have to deal with, some of them are traditional and some of them are bits and pieces that came up this week and the first one in the bits and pieces category, there is a proposal for a possible creation of a new Working Group, and I would like to call Martin Winter to spend two or three minutes in explaining this.

MARTIN WINTER: There should be one slide if the proposed chart which is up there. So first of all, this is not really decision today to make, if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just want to propose it, we will send out a message like this afternoon probably on the RIPE list, therefore open discussion. The idea is probably look at it, discuss it and then feel like decide to do it, have the discussion and prove the process at the next RIPE meeting.

So, what this is is basically the idea is like for mainly come up between, me, Martin Winter, I work open source routing on Quagga, two successful BoFs this and the past talking about some of the open source like routing protocols there, the solutions there, making sure we have the feedback, the direct feedback with the committee that actually uses it and we had the idea it would be nice to have something more regular and a nice forum where we have have a two?way communication there back and forth, but we don't want to restrict it to the routing protocols, the open source port checks which are relevant to this community.

So what you see up there, that's basically our proposed chart. It's obviously all up to the discussion. It's there, but really, the idea is having a two?way for feedback there where the open source committee can like inform you on like interesting updates, what is going on, can get collected feedback there.

And again, it will be limited to basically port check relevant to this community.

OK. That's basically it. If there are any specific questions, right now?

ROB BLOKZIJL: Let me explain the process for those of you who are relatively new to RIPE meetings. Working Groups are created by you. Usually we do this on a Friday morning in a plenary session after a proper introduction. What I have suggested, I think, Martin and Ondrej agreed, is that this proposed charter will be circulated on the greater RIPE list for the whole community to have a look at this, comments will be gathered, will be incorporated in the next version of this charter and at the next RIPE meeting there will be a BoF which will be organised like it were a Working Group, and then on the Friday, the last day of the next RIPE meeting, we will ask for consensus or no consensus on creating a new Working Group.

We have a draft charter, and we have proposed chairman ?? two chairmen, is that correct?

MARTIN WINTER: That's correct, the idea was that probably me myself and Ondrej we will basically start doing that but if there are other people who want to open discussion too.

ROB BLOKZIJL: So if there are comments already on the proposed charter or work plan ?? Ruediger.

RUEDIGER VOLK: For preparing the process, my question is, and are we going to create or has there already been created a mailing list for this?


RUEDIGER VOLK: Should it be?

ROB BLOKZIJL: I don't know. What do you think, Ruediger?

RUEDIGER VOLK: Well, OK, I intended the question to be rhetorical so I think, yes.



It has been noted and we will take action on that. This is food for thought between now and the next meeting with some interactions on the mailing list. Fine. Thank you.

Next, Brian, task force, quick report.

BRIAN NISBET: Yes. Very, very brief. We announced in Ljubljana that we were going to have a task force to review some of the aspects of the Working Group Chairs, and we got some members of the community to be on that task force along are some Working Group Chairs, we are talking about appointment and removal of the Working Group Chairs. A task force prepared a document, and that document is now under discussion and revision with the Working Group Chairs, and we expect to have that towards the end of the year and very definitely will be making it more public, and announcing things prior to RIPE 66. So the work is happening. It hasn't gone dead, it's very active, and we will have more for RIPE 66 and hopefully things will be much more in place at that point in time.

ROB BLOKZIJL: And just to remind you what this is all about: This is not a secret plot in the making; this is an effort trying to document existing practices. Sometimes, we get approached by people saying, these Working Group chairs, how have they been elected or things like that, and we want to document that, put that information on the relevant Working Group pages. As Brian said, there is an almost finished draft and that will be circulated before the next RIPE meeting and then we can adopt it at the next RIPE meeting. Thank you.

Now, I see most of you are fully concentrated on your laptops so I think it's time that the people who are on the other end of your wireless connection give the traditional report on networking at RIPE 65.

RAZVAN OPREA: Thank you. Hello everyone. My name is Razvan from the RIPE NCC and on behalf of the blue badges I hereby present you the RIPE 65 technical report.

This is the architecture schematic of ?? of our network. We had peering with joint transit, open peering, links route servers and KPN, transit provided by NL IX and KPN. We had gigabit uplink and that was actually limited by our router interfaces rather than the 10 gigabit provided by our transit providers.

Some statistics: You can see why 10 gigabit is actually not needed for RIPE meeting yet.

We actually average over half an hour period, we had a bit over 100 megabit traffic and, yes, let's say 120 and the webcast traffic is actually not included in this graph.

We ran network services like usual. The registration desk, the info hub, we set terminal room with six iMacs and network printer. For people asking why do we have the Macs in the terminal room, is that they provide the way in which you can test your presentations, no matter what kind of format you choose to present in.

Our Linux serves are fully virtualised, we support DHCP. In Ljubljana DHCP started on Wednesday and here it was for the entire week and IRC server and cached name server, lots of power blocks they seem to increase with the size of the venues and the amount of devices you want to plug them in and hundreds of metres of tape.

The presentation system is precisely the same as last time; we support PDF, PowerPoint, keynote and ODP. We have the system of in which we seamlessly transition from one presenter to another, or at least we try to, and that is to minimise the time that is being spent in switching presentations, but we do support reach presentations using the dedicated laptop and even if you actually need to you can come with your own laptop and present.

We are doing also remote presentations, we are using Skype for this. It seemed to work quite well, it's a problem with end?to?end connectivity but generally just works quite well, and I see that it's more and more being used by those who would like to present in a Working Group during the RIPE meeting and they simply cannot make it to come to the venue.

Webcast stenography: We are having exactly like the last time, H 264 encoding and AAC. That allows to you see the web streamer in a flash container and to use your mobile devices to watch the web stream while being on?the?go.

The streaming serve was accessible veer I can't v4 and IPv6 and we had the entire time live stenography.

I could say on the webcast that the number of people who actually watch us is steadily increasing. I would ?? the peak was over 200 clients simultaneously watching the webcast and they consumed something like close to 100 megabit of bandwidth.

The wireless network is totally new. As compared to the last RIPE meetings, we have made an investment in access points, 330 and 350s, 48 access points were deployed in this venue. We have some statistics for you. In terms of associations, we have the peak of over 500 associations, and that was on Wednesday. It's increased from 420, if I remember correctly last time. In terms of devices, yes, we have 60%, it's steadily increasing as well; it was in the 50s last time. And in terms ?? and this is actually the distribution by the client operating system.

Now, on to the actual challenges, some of them are the same as always. The patching is always an issue. This is particularly a large venue, as compared to others where we have been. They have only on this floor four patch runs and a PPX room where actually the fibre comes in, and making all these ?? finding all the patches and interconnects, it's quite some task.

48 access points that have to be actually put in the right place at optimum position is always a daunting task. We had to be creative, like always, and tape was our best friend when drilling holes, actually was not an option for this hotel.

Other problems were related to IPv6 enabled services. On Monday morning our web stream was not accessible for a while over IPv6. We simply had to ?? it was a glitch in the streaming server, we rebooted it and it restarted only v4 only. Also, the terminal room printer had some intermittent problems during the week. We had this before, a few RIPE meetings ago, with the same model of a printer; it seems that we will have to actually investigate harder whether we are ?? we are going to replace it, because actually it seems that the v6 stack is simply not stable enough.

Geolocation is becoming the joke of the day. Now we are in Ljubljana, and of course this is actually Google. This time Apple devices, which out of discovery or location, were correctly specifying you are in Amsterdam, but my guess is that this is only because the access points are new, and they have not been used in Honolulu or elsewhere. It's a bit too much to call this a challenge, but still, definitely we are going to look more deeply into this from now until Dublin, and we are going to get in touch with the database providers geolocation information and see exactly how we can pre?emptively let them know that we are going to have access points that have been used elsewhere that are coming to a new location or that a certain address space is going to be advertised again in a different place.

The wireless challenges being a new network have been by far the most serious for some users. We had problems especially with Linux clients. The problems ranged from the inability of connecting to the network, of dropping connection intermittently, of having problems when roaming and actually the access points had to have hand over from one to another. We believe that bandsteering was likely a culprit, albeit not the only one, and we have been trying hard to actually get the bottom of the problem some users had. We appreciate all those who actually came to the Ops Room and let us know they had problems; it is virtually impossible for us to use a large variety of operating systems and of wireless chip sets and of laptops and it might very well be that if you do not say anything, we would know about the problem later than we should. So, I thank everybody that actually came and helped us troubleshoot this, Lorenzo, Wilfried, Niall, a lot of people actually came to us. We have this e?mail address and this is accessible from anywhere in the world. Please write to us with your feedback, help us increase the quality of our network. Come to us as soon as you have an issue. And yes, we are going to, since we have investigated more about it, we intend to actually publish RIPE Labs article about our findings, and I look forward for your cooperation and your feedback in this.

This is the team actually that helped set everything up. We had some guest stars for for the set?up weekend, it was a lot of work and these two people, hard?working, they graduated from the tape academy, like all of us. We had also a team dedicated to web services. They have done a lot of work regarding whatever you see web?related and that's the RIPE 65 website, and the way you upload your presentations, upload in which you actually do ?? are seeing and so on. And also the web stream, editing, which actually means that all the presentations are being cut, published and, as soon as is possible, actually you see the archives on?line. They are the ones to thank.


This is the operations team. It's the same team as last time, with the aaddition of Marco and Raymond. Raymond was the one helping with us this new wireless set?up and I want to thank him for this, and this is actually the does the network, the routing, the wireless, the patching, the terminal room, the registration desk, everything that's wired and wireless in here.

And stenography is the team that you already know and rely upon ?? I know I do ??

Aoife, Ronan, Mary and Anna, thank you very much.

That will be the end of the presentation. I look forward to see all of you next year in Dublin, and if you have questions or comments, please. Yes?

PAUL WILSON: I do want to particularly mention about the video archives, it's a problem I have had at many events where I want to bring a talk to the attention of people at home and I either just send them slides or wait a few weeks for the archives to come on?line. These videos have been posted astonishingly quickly, within minutes.

RAZVAN OPREA: I hope you realise that actually, this came because of the feedback that you have provided in the past RIPE meetings. So, if you actually see, if you actually see or have ideas for improvements, we are ready to listen. Thank you very much.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Thank you and the whole team very much.

So, RIPE 65, I have one slide here with the statistics. 468 attendees, and one should be very careful, an attendee is someone who registered and picked up his or her badge, so it's not just registration; it's people actually showed up and this is not counting RIPE NCC staff. So it's a new record. And you broke the record, thank you.


These meetings are possible because a lot of people put a lot of effort in it and one group of organisations I think we would like to thank especially, and that's the sponsors, and I think there is a slide. Oh, there is more. Newcomers, yeah, we had 22% newcomers, and I think it is rather consistent, this number, and it is not only people who come for the first time to a RIPE meeting; it's, of course, also people coming from organisations that just send a new face to a RIPE meeting. One of the things I have asked the NCC staff is to have a little bit more detailed look because we are interested, not only in new people from established organisations coming, but we are also interested in finding out how many new people are coming from new organisations, and I hope to have some more information about that by the next RIPE meeting.

50 different countries, it's always amazing to see ?? well, it's not amazing ?? the Netherlands is the largest because Amsterdam happens to be in the Netherlands. Germany is very close to the Netherlands, but the US is not so close to the Netherlands, and I think it just shows that, yeah, we are regional organisations but the Internet is global, and that I think is very healthy, and very healthy is that there are 50 dots on this, so this is quite a good coverage.

This is only interesting if you compare it to the first few RIPE meetings where I think we had 98% of people coming from the educational world, and now you can see the Internet basically is everywhere and there are various, I hate this word, stakeholders who keep coming, and we are, of course, very pleased to see that one of the very small slices in this pie, the 4% of government, it looks like very slice but it's extremely important to have governments coming to these meetings, as you have heard on various sessions.

So, what do you think? We are always interested in what do you think. Suggestions, comments, what went wrong, what did you like, especially, and how could we improve, go to this corner on the RIPE website and you will find a feedback forum.

This was the slide I was looking for, these are the sponsors for this meeting, and I would also like to ask you to A) thank these sponsors. Thank you, sponsors.


We have had many, many meetings in Amsterdam, but this is the first one in a new venue, and I must say I am personally extremely pleased with the way everything has been set up in a new venue by the RIPE NCC team and I think also the hotel has done a great job in making this a very, very pleasant meeting, so I would like to say thank you to the hotel staff because it's very important to bring people in a good mood here.


This will come back in a few moments.

Prizes: Yes. We do that. Again, if you are new, you will learn that it pays to register immediately when the registration opens. On the top corner of your badge you will find a number, and a the lowest numbers present in the room today will get a little prize, and I have a list, number one is me, but that's hard?coded in the registration software.

That doesn't count, but number two is Peter Janssen from EURid.

Number 3 is Sergey Myasoedov.

And the third prize goes to Peter Koch, DE?NIC.

Right. So now you know what to do when the RIPE NCC announces registration is open, you can maybe even write a script.

Yes, the next RIPE meeting is in Dublin, and I think Brian will say a few words to encourage you to come.

BRIAN NISBET: This is now longer than I was going to speak for. Very briefly. RIPE 66 in Dublin, which HEAnet are very happy to invite you to come to 13th to 17th of May. We had our 15th birthday this year so we thought he would have some sort of afterparty with RIPE next year and he will have cleaned up by the time you get there. Dublin is a lovely lovely city with much to recommend it. We guarantee weather, it's going to be amazing. It will be May, so we can hope it might look a little bit more like this but we guarantee nothing, although it is a very, very lovely place and with lots to see and do. So, in short, cead mile failte, 1,000 well comes, you bring the IP addresses, we will bring the beer. See you in Dublin, thank you very much.

ROB BLOKZIJL: So, we are almost done, Secret Working Group.

(Secret Working Group)

RANDY BUSH: Just a note on the sonnet which suggested a proposal to have no more proposals, that was done in APNIC, proposal 103 and it quickly, by the APNIC bureaucracy, was turned into the most complex and useless discussion, the very thing it was meant to prevent.

ROB BLOKZIJL: And I don't even have a Secret Working Group, maybe I need one.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Right. I thank you all for participating in this RIPE meeting. There is nothing more on the agenda. I close this meeting and we are ?? wish you all a safe trip home and see you all in Dublin. Thank you for coming.