09:04 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Hello, welcome to Address Policy WG First session today. My name is Kaveh Ranjbar.
09:04 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> I will be monitoring chat during this session. If you have a question or comment, I can read it out for you. Please make your questions as clear as possible. I will read out any questions when the speaker asks for questions at the end of his/her presentation. Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on‰ https://ripe64.ripe.net/
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09:05 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert Doering has started the session, the agenda is being displayed: https://ripe65.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/address-policy-wg/
09:06 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert guesses PI discussion will take until coffee break
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09:07 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Suggestion from audience to discuss 2012-04 in the second address policy session (after coffee break)
09:08 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert says it is possible, we can move items H and Y to first session and move 2012-04 discussion to the second
09:08 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: No comment on the list about the minutes, minutes are final
09:08 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Presentation from Emilio Madaio, RIPE NCC, Title: Current Policy Topics
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09:09 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> it is started
09:09 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/233-PolicyUpdate-RIPE65.key is the link to current presentation
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09:10 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> For the users who have joined recently: Welcome to Address Policy WG First session today. My name is Kaveh Ranjbar from RIPE NCC. I will be monitoring chat during this session. If you have a question or comment, I can read it out for you. Please make your questions as clear as possible. I will read out any questions when the speaker asks for questions at the end of his/her presentation. Please note that all chat transcripts will be arc
09:11 < Eliot> good morning Kaveh
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09:13 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Good morning Eliot.
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09:18 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Emilio: 2012-02 will be presented today by Author, same for 2012-04 which is in the review phase
09:19 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> 2012-05 is a proposal for Intra RIR transfer which will presented here remotely today
09:19 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> 2012-06 is in initial discussion phase
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09:20 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> 2012-07 is the legacy holders policy proposal being discussed in NCC Services, Authors already stated they will submit a new version
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09:24 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> questions?
09:24 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Emilio is finished
09:24 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex Le Heux from RIPE NCC has started https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/235-alex_le_heux_-_apwg.ppt: https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/235-alex_le_heux_-_apwg.ppt
09:25 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> 2007-01 Report: Total number of assignments: 51071, 35675 contracts processed, 15396 assignments still pending
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09:28 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> âÃúLIRs may only receive one allocation from this (last) /8. The size of the allocation made under this (2010-02, RIPE 509) policy will be exactly one /22âÃù
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09:29 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex: uptake for 32bit ASNs in RIPE NCC region were very good
09:30 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex: a short period (about 2 months) in next year, we will allocate only 16 bit as numbers, because our 32 pool will be depleted and we do not qualify for a new pool for about 2 months
09:31 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> We have a choice: Run out of 16 bit or 32 bit ASNs
09:31 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Proposal: Run out of 32 bit ones while possible
09:32 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: Asking a question, AP-WG co chair, what is the curent estimates when the 16 bit ASN pool will run out?
09:32 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex: I don't have that number now, but I can mail it to mailing list later,
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09:32 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: It would be useful
09:33 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Leo Vegoda from ICANN: We have a small 32 bit pool, about 4 blocks are left
09:33 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> maybe each LIR gets one of the 32 bit blocks
09:33 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Back to Alex: last /8 policy
09:35 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> although the policy says a /22 allocation, rest of the stuff are already coming from old policies, for example after 6 months the assignment window is raised to /21, 80% rule still in effect
09:36 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex: Is there an opinion from workin group (on slide 15)
09:37 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> If you have any questions, now is the time.
09:38 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Wilfried Woeber University of Vienna speaking, acknowledges the inconsistencies and is urging community to look into the issue seriously.
09:39 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: We hear you.
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09:40 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Rob (RIPE Chair): In general agreement with Wilfried and mentioning the need for a clean up in the policies.
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09:41 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Rob: Allocation game is over and the current requirements can be explained in a few words and the community realises IPv4 is over and we should not waste time on very specific v4 policies which are not relevant anymore.
09:42 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nina from TDC: I think it is urgent to clean up assignment policy. We should really put some effort in cleaning up these policies
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09:43 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: as an added remark to that: we can get there pretty quickly but just agreeing on the policy proposal
09:44 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Hans Pter: Seems everybody agrees, shouldn't we have anything on the table?
09:44 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> alex: any questions?
09:44 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex leaving
09:44 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex left the stage :)
09:44 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert Doering (APWG co-chair) is on stage
09:45 < tore> Djinh_ncc: didn't manage to type out the comment in time - but your slides says the 3 month period is "halfway through" - that's not actually the case, 3 months is the entire period
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09:45 < tore> «As of 1 July 2011, the RIPE NCC or the LIRs will start assigning enough address space to End Users to meet their needs for a period of up to three months.»
09:45 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> For the users who have joined recently: Welcome to Address Policy WG First session today. My name is Kaveh Ranjbar from RIPE NCC. I will be monitoring chat during this session. If you have a question or comment, I can read it out for you. Please make your questions as clear as possible. I will read out any questions when the speaker asks for questions at the end of his/her presentation. Please note that all chat transcripts will be arc
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09:46 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Tore: do you want me to read your statement?
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09:46 < tore> KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC: no, it's fine
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09:46 < tore> I can say it myself later
09:46 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Great
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09:47 < tore> or, doesn't really matte
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09:47 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Sandra Brwon is on stage now: from IPv4 Market Group
09:47 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Showing https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/221-RIPE-2012-02_and_03Preso.ppt
09:48 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Title is: 2012-02 and 2012-03
09:48 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Inter-RIR Transfers And Lengthening the Justification Period to 24 Months
09:49 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> in APNIC there is a proposal to extend APNIC transfers from 12 to 24 months
09:49 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Africa and US are not worried because they already have remaining v4 space
09:52 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> roughly we are looking to have the policy in place by january 1st
09:52 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> any questions or feedback?
09:52 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: Silence is not fully consent.
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09:52 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Remco: I would encourage anyone in favour have this move forward
09:53 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Ingrid form RIPE NCC:I have noticed implementation time in 3 months, where the time frame is coming from?
09:53 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: we can do that, if everybody does their homework right
09:53 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Ingrid: It depends on different factors
09:54 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: thanks for remembring us there is a lot of work behind the scens to implement this
09:54 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> any other questions?
09:54 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nina, TDC
09:55 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Isee a new link, this is a new way that people can get new space, we should consider if these can be aligned with new assignment policies
09:55 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: it is a support for it?
09:55 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nina: Yes, it is a supoprt for getting it going
09:55 < tore> followup to nina: there is no policy covering transfers of *assignments*
09:55 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: In general I hear support and no strong opposition, we will take it to the list
09:55 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> should I read it Tore?
09:55 < tore> this policy would therefore only cover transfer of allocations (at least, for now)
09:55 < tore> yes
09:55 < tore> tore anderson, redpill linpro
09:56 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: Tore already mentioned it on the list
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09:57 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: Jumping to item H again
09:57 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> IPv6 PA/PI unification policy, removing the distinction between the two
10:00 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert presenting slide 18 of https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/227-wg.pdf
10:00 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> any questions?
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10:00 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Erik: As the author of this policy, it is line of what I was expecting
10:01 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Daniel: are there any specification what are the goals of this project?
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10:01 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: it was published before, the idea is just address blocks, but the rules are the same.
10:02 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Daniel: Do we really want people to use IPv6, because the rules are so strange and it is hard.
10:02 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: I want to make v6 policy as simple as possible
10:03 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Questions?
10:03 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Jumping to item Y on https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/227-wg.pdf, OPEN POLICY HOUR
10:03 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nick Hilliard, INEX on Y.1:
10:04 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> presenting: https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/249-inex-ripe-apwg-amsterdam-pi-tempassignments-2012-09-27.pdf
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10:04 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Title: Temporary IP Assignments Policy Changes
10:09 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Questions?
10:09 < tore> comment: I really don't like the booking system. It's over-engineering - the NCC's developers have more useful thing to work on. Besides, if you can't actually announce or use the space - you can't really debogonise it, can you?
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10:12 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Remco: in favour of changing time scale to a reasonable number
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10:13 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Wilfried: Also for time scale. also there is no need for a booking system, so come up with a well defined time sacel
10:13 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nick in response to Tore's question, I agree and it is right
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10:14 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Nick in response to Wilfried: IPRAs haven't seen a huge take up in because there was no constraint in Address space. Second, the purpose is not to punish people who have a valid address space, so I think you are right
10:15 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alex Le Heux(RIPE NCC): I haven't done a full impact analysis, for the fake of fairness, I will say something about all three systems.
10:18 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Sander: We should be a bit generous
10:18 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Gert: Another not yet fomer policy proosal
10:18 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Alexa Ivanov from LEader telecom, presenting https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/251-Presentation_ripe.pptx
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10:21 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Remco: everything you mentioned is already possible by existing transfer policy, I am not sure if we need another policy
10:21 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Questions?
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10:22 < tore> Question: I assume a sub-allocation would be subject to need evaluation, like normal transfers, correct? Also - could a LIR sub-allocate a block larger than it's assignment window, without involving RIPE NCC staff?
10:22 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Sander: we will take it to the mailing list, very good that in your first RIPE Meeting coming up with a proposal
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10:23 < Eimann> ohhh, mailinglist
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10:23 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Session finished, we will back 11 (Amsterdam time) for the second half of the session
10:23 < KavehRanjbar_RIPENCC> Tore, I will read it as soon as next session starts
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